"I think they got themselves in a position where they needed to make changes," Piniella, the Seattle manager, said.

"The wild card kept us in it," said Woody Woodward, the Seattle general manager.

His future as the Seattle manager is yet to be determined.

Much of damage he took in second half last season was when he was gassed and Seattle manager would incompetently leave him in.

Hargrove's record as Seattle manager is 192-209, including a 93 loss season record in 2005.

Pat Gillick, the Seattle general manager, was there for the Mariners.

"They started it," said Lou Piniella, the Seattle manager.

"He does compare to a lot of players because he's such a great talent," said Jim Lefebvre, the Seattle manager.

"You haven't heard him say anything; that's not his style," Woody Woodward, the Seattle general manager, said.

But Piniella, the Seattle manager, offered another observation that acknowledged the real possibility of the existence and effect of mystique.