"But the union knows the competitive landscape and will exercise that power with intelligence."

A person involved with management said the union knows of the owners' flexibility through these conversations.

The union does not yet know what it will do differently.

"One thing the unions know for sure is that none of these negotiations will take place in isolation from the other."

The idea is that the union is savvier, and knows a good deal when it sees one.

The pilots' union knows that management is determined to extract cuts in next year's bargaining.

The union accepts this fact, but does not know what to do about it.

Plus the typical unions knew if we weren't successful, all the jobs would go away.

Thus, even if the vote on independence is lost, the union as we know it is over.

The unions know it as well as anybody - there's no money.